Interview with copywriter, marketer and trainer Sergey Troubadour

Today my guest is Sergey Troubadour, head of the Web Copywriting Agency (https://troobadoor.ru/) and the School of Successful Freewriting (https://profreelance.ru/).

His School has recently become a leader in the training of web writers and web copywriters. And soon she will be 4 years old. Therefore, we will talk with Sergey mainly about his training projects.

Since my readers may not know you, please tell us a little about yourself. How long have you been on the Internet? What were your motives and desires? What was wrong with your previous job?

Hello Vlad and colleagues :-).

In a nutshell, in 2007 I started writing articles for websites (web writing), at the beginning of 2008 I went into freelancing, and soon switched to web copywriting – selling texts.

The main motive is the eternal search for an occupation that would be even more enjoyable and at the same time bring a greater financial effect. And for almost 10 years I have been moving in line with working with texts: first journalism, then web writing, then web copywriting.

Past work (newsman in the newspaper) did not suit for two reasons.

• Firstly, I loved to write, not to communicate – but I had to call the right commentators, go on assignments, and even pester people on the streets with questions.
• Secondly, the age-old problem of low salaries also affected – freewriting gave me a noticeably greater income.

Troubadour is most likely a pseudonym, right? But why “Troubadour”? Do you find any common features with a famous character?

Yes, it’s a pseudonym.

And although I love the Bremen Town Musicians, I thought about it the least when I came up with a new pseudonym for working on the Internet. Just “dropped” :-).

In general, choosing a pseudonym for me has never been a problem. But this one surpassed all the previous ones and began to sound much more often than my last name.

There may be similarities with the cartoon Troubadour, but I never thought about it.

When did you realize that you could pass on your knowledge to other authors? When did the idea to become a coach come about?

For the first year and a half on the Internet, I was marking time, not knowing where to move and how to take off. Then a consultation with a colleague opened my eyes to the basics of personal marketing. I began to dig in this direction – and in a year I made a double leap “from rags to riches”: first as a web writer, then as a web copywriter.

Then I thought that I could share my discoveries with colleagues. And the first master group “Success for a Freelance Writer” was dedicated to purely personal marketing – how to sell your services more expensively.

And later, training products were created on the technique of working with texts.

You are the first coach who introduced the concept of “freewriter”, is that right? Why such a wording? How did you come to divide the work of authors into specialties: web writer and web copywriter?

The term “freewriter” in relation to freelancers of text professions was used before me, but very little. In 2009, before the launch of the first educational project (we will celebrate this date, September 20, as the 4th anniversary of the School), I thought over branding and terminology. And I came to the conclusion that this is a great, sonorous name to summarize all web authors.

As for the separation of web writers from web copywriters, for me it was a matter of course from the very beginning of working with selling texts. After all, any web copywriter sees that his work is simply strikingly different from the technique of writing ordinary, non-advertising articles for websites.

In general, the work of a web writer is even closer to the work of a journalist than to selling texts. But it has its own characteristics, its own technique, which was enriched in many ways by our School (as well as the technique of web copywriting, where I have a lot of my own experience).

Well, the fact that SEO-optimizers at one time dumped all types of copyrighted texts into one “copywriting” has long been no problem for me :-). At the Troubadour School, everything is put in its place, our students use correct and convenient terminology, and fellow coaches increasingly share this initiative.

Sergey, what goals does your School set for itself? Who are you preparing? How is your project different from others like it?

Our goal is to train competent and successful freewriters. It was not in vain that I drew attention to the terminology – in our country a person initially clearly understands what exactly he will do, and masters the technique of the chosen specialty.

From freewriting professions, we lead people in the two specialties already mentioned: web writing and web copywriting (this is 80 percent of the entire market, if not more). Moreover, we recommend that beginners start with the first one, with articles, and only then switch to selling texts – it’s easier to enter the market.

We give rewriting in passing – we consider this specialty unpromising (boring and underpaid). We don’t post at all. We haven’t gotten to advanced web journalism yet :-). It seems that he listed the main freewriting specialties.

How are we different? To a lot of people:

• it was we who introduced the concept of “freewriting” and popularized web writing, which I have already mentioned;
• we have been teaching since 2009 — the Troubadour School is one of the oldest;
• we have a lot of experience, many products and graduates;
• we probably have the largest number of subscribers – currently more than 22,000 people;
• we have experienced coaches: myself and two juniors, for each direction (Alex Yeltanskaya and Natalya Piganova);
• and most importantly – numerous own developments and know-how in each direction in education.

Perhaps it is immodest to say that our School is No. 1 in the training of freewriters. But this is better for our students to judge.

At the School, you say that even a beginner can start earning, the main thing is to be able to sell their services. But how can a beginner do it? Where to begin?

The traditional scheme that we propose looks like this:

• study the “materiel” a little in our free training: https://profreelance.ru/real/;
• write first articles;
• be placed in the content store of the TextSale exchange (just for testing);
• develop a training portfolio, thereby strengthening the technique and acquiring a good persuasion tool;
• fill in high-quality work profiles on the resources for working with orders (emphasis on free-lance.ru, but, possibly, immediately and content exchanges);
• start trying to take on projects;
• in parallel to develop a short way to customers – a direct exit with commercial offers.

This is what you need to do to get started – and what we do with students in the 2-month coaching for webwriters.

The start of a web copywriter is not particularly different – the scheme is almost the same. But, I repeat, usually novice freewriters first get results in articles, and only then they mark them in selling texts. They pay more for them, but they also need higher qualifications.

What personal qualities do you think help authors achieve success?

Personally, I believe that the main thing is to be ready for patient work, but at the same time constantly look for shortcuts to success. Personally, I have achieved a result in the unity of these opposites (smooth movement and sharp rises).

Patience and work will really grind everything. But you can shorten the path by knowing the most effective personal marketing techniques.

In addition, motivation is important for many people – especially for the most impatient :-).

You probably already have successful students, right? Who are they? How much are they earning now?

I got my first result as a coach at the first master group in 2009. Then the student who most consistently completed my assignments jumped to $2,000 in average monthly income.

Since then, many graduates and readers of the School have earned an income of 20-30-40 thousand rubles or more, become top authors of resources, and some even coaches. Someone had enough free advice, like Arthur Grant and Alena Putyatina. And someone studied my products from cover to cover, like Alexey Egorov and the current members of my team.

By the way, I rarely release real nuggets just like that :-). For example, Alex Yeltanskaya and Natalya Piganova first became successful web copywriters, and now they are junior trainers at my School. Evgenia Gold also works there. Elena Lutsian and Natalya Samoilova work at the Troubadour Agency.

By the way, this is an excellent symbiosis – the opportunity to prepare new authors for the Agency right at the School. Such copywriters do not have to be retrained – first I nurture them, then they help the Agency grow :-).

How do you rate your success as a copywriter? You, despite coaching, continue to write selling texts?

Personally, I practically don’t write anymore, except for some of the selling texts for the School itself. I probably reached the top 10 web copywriters (and the top 5 infobusiness copywriters) with a rate of 12,000 rubles per page and a monthly income of about 40,000–50,000 rubles (with part-time work). And then he created the Web Copywriting Agency.

Now I am mainly engaged in management, control the marketing and creative process, communicate with VIP customers, train my employees and set the development vector. But, of course, I periodically warm up in selling texts myself :-).

What do you think is the best area to work in? Can a webwriter earn as much as a copywriter?

I have already said this above – in general, web copywriting is more profitable.

Of course, there are web writers who can handle $2,000 a month. But there are fewer such top web writers than their counterparts in web copywriting, and the average income per article is lower. It’s simple: selling texts make a profit directly, directly participating in sales, and articles – indirectly.

Although it also happens with our mess that they order “articles on the main page” for commercial sites. It is in this border segment, by the way, that the most successful web writers most often work.

What would you wish to my readers, both beginners and not so much?

Find an occupation that will meet all three conditions: like it, get it, generate income. Then everything will be great :-).

And it will be great if your readers, like me, all three conditions converge on freewriting!